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标题: 请版主learner组织一下关于HAY及CRG职位评估系统的探讨 [打印本页]

作者: 儒文 时间: 2003-5-21 19:59
标题: 请版主learner组织一下关于HAY及CRG职位评估系统的探讨
我希望与你联系，电子邮件：ochr@sohu.com

作者: learner 时间: 2003-5-22 09:30
标题: hello~
岗位评估应属于薪酬管理的范围，这里也就不组织讨论了。无论是HAY还是CRG，都是寻找付酬因素，再进行定义，再评分，再根据所有岗位评分来拉薪酬曲线。所以，重要的是付酬因素。 “薪酬管理”板有一篇“CRG”的文章，可以去看看。我email: mmxxxz@163.com

作者: 容克 时间: 2003-5-22 11:19
标题: learner,象你这样的版主，我们不信任，请择时离开吧。　
learner,象你这样的版主，我们不信任，请择时离开吧。

作者: learner 时间: 2003-5-22 11:46
标题: 请注意。这里是职位分析板
每个板有自己的定位。应该把自己的板做深做透，而不是碰到另外也问题也插一脚。我可以就提到的问题发表自己的看法，但我不在能这里组织不属于本板内容的讨论。

作者: 林曼 时间: 2003-5-30 11:14
标题: 岗位评估是薪酬管理范围吗？
[quote]以下是引用learner在2003-5-22 9:30:18的发言岗位评估应属于薪酬管理的范围，这里也就不组织讨论了。无论是HAY还是CRG，都是寻找付酬因素，再进行定义，再评分，再根据所有岗位评分来拉薪酬曲线。所以，重要的是付酬因素。 “薪酬管理”板有一篇“CRG”的文章，可以去看看。我email: mmxxxz@163.com **************[/quote]

作者: 林曼 时间: 2003-5-30 11:15
标题: 我的话没有说完
如果连岗位评估都不在我们讨论的范围，那么还要工作分析干嘛

作者: learner 时间: 2003-5-30 16:19
标题: 嗯。
工作分析跟岗位评估是完全不一样的概念，不过你提出的问题也是可以讨论的，毕竞工作分析和岗位评估还是有一定的相关性的。不过我认为岗位评估确属于薪酬管理的内容。如果放在这个板也可以，可以把板名改成职位分析和岗位评估。

作者: 儒文 时间: 2003-5-30 21:46
标题: 关于HAY的大概资料
Hay Method This method, first developed by Dr Edward N. Hay in the early 1950s, is essentially concerned with decision making and responsibility. Guide Charts were created in 1951 in client situations. Emphasis was placed on answerability for the consequences of decisions, the degree of freedom to take decisions and bring them to fruition, the degree to which there is prime accountability, as compared to shared or contributory accountability in a job. The Guide-Chart Profile : 4 Critical Observations  The most significant factor could be grouped as representing the knowledge required to do a job, the kind of thinking needed to solve the problems commonly faced, and the responsibilities assigned.  Jobs could be ranked not only in the order of importance within the organization, but the distances between the ranks could be determined.  The factors appeared in certain kinds of patterns that seemed to be inherent to certain kinds of jobs  The focus of the process of job evaluation must be on the nature and requirements of the job itself, not on the skills or background or characteristics or pay of the job holder. The Guide-Chart Profile : Hay Method There are Three Factors with a total of eight elements which determine the value of different jobs. They are: 1. Know-How 2. Problem-Solving 3. Accountability The Guide-Chart Profile Method : Know-How What is Know-How  Know-How is the total of every kind of skill required for average acceptable job performance. It is knowledge and experience in professional, managerial and human Relations activities necessary to fulfill the job.  Know-How is measured in depth by eight degrees and in breadth by five degrees The Guide-Chart Profile Method : Know-How The three dimensions of Know-How are:  Practical procedures, specialized techniques and knowledge within occupational fields, commercial functions, and professional or scientific disciplines. This is commonly referred to as the Depth of Know- How.  Integrating and harmonizing simultaneous achievements of diversified functions within managerial situations occurring in operating, technical, support or administrative fields. This is referred to as the Breadth of Know-How  Active, practicing person-to-person skills in work with other people. This is referred to as the Human Relations Skill. The Guide-Chart Profile Method : Know-How Depth Of Know-How A. Education to post –primary level

作者: 儒文 时间: 2003-5-30 21:48
标题: 关于HAY的大概资料（续）1
B. Practiced in standard work routines and /or use of simple equipment and machines C. Procedural or systematic efficiency and use of specialized equipment D. Specialized skill gained by on-the-job experience or through part professional qualification E. Understanding of theoretical principles normally gained through professional qualification or through a detailed group of involved practices and procedures F. Seasoned proficiency in a highly specialized field, gained through experience built on theories or a broad and deep understanding of complex practices G. Mastery of principles, practices and theories gained through wide experience and/or special development H. Unique command of principles, theories and practices The Guide-Chart Profile Method : Know-How Breadth Of Know-How I. Non or minimal – Performance or supervision of jobs which have closely specified objectives II. Homogeneous – Integration of operations which are homogeneous in nature and objective, and coordination with associated functions III. Heterogeneous – Integration or coordination of diverse functions or sub-functions in a company; or inter-company coordination of a tactical function IV. Broad – Integration of the major functions in an operating company; or group-wide coordination of a strategic function affecting policy formation V. Total – The management of strategic functions and policy formation The Guide-Chart Profile Method : Know-How Human Relations Skills 1. Basic – Ordinary courtesy and effectiveness in dealing with others 2. Important – Understanding and influencing people, important but not over-riding considerations 3. Over-riding – Skills in developing and motivating people are over-riding considerations The Guide-Chart Profile Method : Know-How Guide-Chart Profile Method : Problem Solving What is Problem Solving  The use of Know-How required by the job to identify, define, and resolve problems. “You think with what you know.” This is even true for the most creative work. The raw material of any thinking is knowledge of facts, principles and means. For that reason, Problem Solving is measured as a percentage of Know-How.  Problem Solving has two dimensions:  The environment in which the thinking takes place  The challenge presented by the thinking to be done The Guide-Chart Profile Method – Problem-Solving Thinking Environment A. Detailed rules and/or rigid supervision B. Standard instructions and/or continuous close supervision C. Well-defined procedures, somewhat diversified and/or supervised

作者: 儒文 时间: 2003-5-30 21:50
标题: 关于HAY的大概资料（续）2
D. Substantially diversified established company procedures, and general supervision E. Clearly defined company policies, principles and specific objectives under readily available direction F. Broad policies and objectives, under general direction G. General policies, principles and goals under guidance H. Business philosophy and/or principles controlling human affairs The Guide-Chart Profile Method – Problem-Solving Thinking Challenge I. Repetitive – Identical situations requiring solution by simple choice of things learned II. Patterned – Similar situations requiring solution by discriminating choice of things learned III. Variable – Differing situations requiring searching, finding and selecting solutions within the area of things learned IV. Adaptive – Situations requiring analytical interpretive and/or constructive thinking. Judgment is required V. Creative – Novel or non-recurring path-finding situations requiring the development of new concepts and imaginative approaches Guide-Chart Profile Method : Accountability What is Accountability?  The answerability for action and for the consequences thereof. It is the measured effect of the job on end results of the organization. It has three dimensions:  Freedom to Act - is the extent of personal, procedural, or systematic guidance or control of actions in relation to the primary emphasis of the job  Job Impact on End Results – is the extent to which job can directly affects actions necessary to produce results within its primary emphasis.  Magnitude – is the portion of the total organization encompassed by the primary emphasis of the job. This is usually but not necessarily, reflected by the annual revenue or expense dollars associated with the area in which the job has its primary emphasis. The Guide-Chart Profile Method - Accountability Freedom To Act A. Prescribed – Direct and detailed instructions, and close supervision B. Controlled – Established work routines and close supervision C. Standardised – Standardised practices and procedures, general work instructions and supervision of progress and results D. Generally regulated – Practices and procedures which have clear precedents E. Directed – Broad practice and procedures covered by functional precedents and policies and managerial direction F. Oriented Direction – Functional policies and goals, and general managerial direction G. Senior Guidance – Inherently and primarily to direct top management guidance H. Ownership Guidance – Only to ownership review and public recreation The Guide-Chart Profile Method - Accountability Impact

作者: 儒文 时间: 2003-5-30 21:52
标题: 关于HAY的大概资料（续）3(不知道什么原因，内容栏不能一次全贴
I. Very Small (under US$1M) II. Small (Between US$1M to US$10M) III. Medium (Between US$10M to US$100M) IV. Large (More than US$100M) The Guide-Chart Profile Method - Accountability Environment 1. Remote – Giving information on other incidental services for use by others involved in the action 2. Contributory – Interpreter, advisory or facilitating services to those involved in the action 3. Shared – Participating with others (except superiors and subordinates) in taking action 4. Prime – Wholly responsible, with little or no shared responsibility

作者: learner 时间: 2003-6-2 10:14
标题: 谢谢儒文为我们贴的HAY的资料！
一次贴不上是因为字数限制的原因吧～

作者: 好了 时间: 2003-6-2 10:50
标题: 看来版主的压力还是很大的
[quote]以下是引用容克在2003-5-22 11:19:58的发言 learner,象你这样的版主，我们不信任，请择时离开吧。 **************[/quote] 我觉得人力资源管理的很多环节都是相通的，很难将其明确界定。比如说岗位评估，没有工作分析，岗位评估就无从谈起；而对岗位进行评估所形成的结果很大程度上是为制定薪酬服务的。从这个角度说，那么岗位评估到底是属于工作分析还是薪酬管理呢？谁说的清？所以说，我们争论一下是必要的，但据此而怀疑版主是没有必要的！

作者: 慕容飞雪 时间: 2003-6-2 14:23
标题: 我赞成!
工作分析是为各部分HR工作服务的,岗位评估是重要的后续工作,但他确实主要是为薪酬设计服务的.所以LEARNER也不算错.可以谅解/1

作者: 儒文 时间: 2003-6-2 20:23
标题: 其实我们没有必要争论
还是大家一起来谈谈职位评估系统吧？我相信中人网的同仁一定有人能解决。或者有同仁有这方面的详细资料，或者有公司有这方面的操作经验，贴上来一起分享。

作者: foxlin 时间: 2003-6-2 21:05
标题: 区别与联系
工作分析（job analysis）与职位或说岗位评估（job evaluation）可以说定位是完全不同的。首先工作分析是主要用于招聘和留住优秀员工为目的，其核心可为工作描述（job description）和职位说明书（国外叫person specification）.然而job evaluation正如learner所说，是服务于薪酬管理（reward management）的，属于一种考核，其通过划分不同的考核指标来进行等级(rank)打分，也有按点（point）划分，。员工符合指标要求的就可以得到该分数，然后进行累加或升级，从而给予薪酬。当然不可否认job evaluation是要进行分析啊，但并不是job analysis侧重的东西。可能是翻译的原因所以会照成大家的一些误解罢了。。。。hay and crg美国和英国咨询公司，其评估系统确实值得探讨

作者: qd58yryyhzgz 时间: 2009-11-23 15:13
标题: 回复：请版主learner组织一下关于HAY及CRG职位评估系统
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